[Jess Brownell] That's, I think, what's really special about this story and makes it unique from every other season that we've done. These two in this world absolutely should not be together. It's upstairs, downstairs, it's class clash, it's forbidden romance.

[CLIP] [vibrant classical music playing] The reality of you has become more tantalizing than any fantasy ever could be, and one I cannot live without. 

[Alison Hammond] So when it comes to the book, um, what's important to keep from the book? What are you excited to modernize for television? Tell me a little bit about that process. 

[Jess Brownell] Yeah. For us, we do kind of a book club when we first start the season, where we reread the book. Most of us have read these books several times at this point. And we talk about, okay, what are those key moments that really pop out and make us swoon? You know, and make all the readers, the fans of the book swoon. So for this season, one that stands out a lot was the lake scene in part one. Oh, yes, the lake scene. What, the first kiss?

[Jess Brownell] The first kiss, yeah.

[Alison Hammond] I love that bit. At My Cottage, you know, at that whole set piece. So we're… You know, this book I think was actually very adaptable to the screen because there are so many very visual set pieces. Yeah, so what was the actual… the inspiration behind that lake scene? Was it Jonathan? When we first saw Jonathan way, way back then, were you feeling, like, "I needed another lake moment"? 

[Jess Brownell] Well, you know, even the Jonathan scene in the lake was an homage to Jane Austen. You know, if you're going back to Mr. Darcy coming out of the lake in, you know, one of the film adaptations. I love a bit of… I love a bit of water.

[Alison Hammond] I love a bit of water.

[Jess Brownell] Love a bit of water.

[Alison Hammond] You know, getting…A little bit of nakedness.

[Jess Brownell] Getting a little wet on this show.

[Alison Hammond] Yes, please. 

[Alison Hammond]  Tell me how you crafted Sophie. I love the fact that she's Korean. I love everything about that. And did you pay any homage to her culture and heritage at all? 

[Jess Brownell] Yeah, absolutely. So we knew when we were casting the role that we were seeking out an East Asian lead. But it was Yerin herself who really stood out. The moment we met her, we knew no one else could play that role. She brings so much to the table. She, you know, has this depth and this old soul, but she also has this playful energy that comes out over the course of the season. Um, I think our names are the… you know, the pieces of our culture that so many of us carry forward. So it felt really important to honor her ancestry by changing the name, um, to Baek. Um, and I was able to consult with Yerin directly on that and invite her to collaborate. You know, I was like, "Do you have anyone in your family or your friend group, you know, who you want to honor?" And we were kind of like, no, but Baek sounds really similar to Beckett. So that really worked out. And then we didn't want to otherize her too much by making her culture too much of a… a thing. But I think there are little moments in the production design when we do call attention to the fact that her ancestors are Korean. 

[Alison Hammond] Oh, right. Like what? 

[Jess Brownell] Well, I'll be jumping ahead, but it'll be something.

[Alison Hammond] Can you not tell me yet?

[Jess Brownell] It'll be something in part two.

[Alison Hammond] Really?

[Jess Brownell] There's little moments in part two. And also in Araminta's household, because, you know, Sophie's father is Korean. Araminta, um, is of Chinese descent, but she married a man of Korean descent. So there are both Korean and Chinese influences very subtly in the production design in that house. So I need to look at the decoration maybe of the house. Thank you.

[Alison Hammond] A little nugget there.

[Jess Brownell] Yeah. Little Easter eggs.

[Alison Hammond] I love that. I feel like Benedict is really all about pleasuring Sophie. It's all about her experience, which I love. And I feel, is that all to do with the fact that it's Shondaland's vibe to talk about the women's experience? I love this. 

[Jess Brownell] Very much. Very much. I mean, I think the women are in so many ways our key protagonists. Of course, we're interested in Benedict's experience too, but perhaps we're trying to balance the scales a little bit of how, you know, historically in media, men's gaze and men's pleasure gets focused on a little bit more. In a world in which women don't have a lot of agency over much in their lives other than marriage and sex, it's very important in those intimacy scenes to let the women be the ones experiencing the most pleasure.

[Alison Hammond] Thank you, Jess.

[Jess Brownell] You're so welcome.

[Alison Hammond]  Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Jess laughs] 

[Alison Hammond] Can we talk about the staircase scene? It's so hot.

[Jess] We sure can.

[Alison Hammond] Jess, it's so hot.

[laughing]

[Alison Hammond]  And once again, he's… he's so great with her. Um, what does it mean for both of them on that stairwell?

[Jess Brownell] Yeah. The stairwell was the very first image for me of the season. Before we even started meeting as a writing staff, I had this image of Benedict walking upstairs, Sophie walking downstairs, and the two of them looking through the center of the staircase at each other. Because it's just this liminal space between their two worlds where their unique connection exists. So, you know, it's a very romantic moment, but then there's a record scratch, of course, when Benedict makes his…

[Alison Hammond] He ruins everything.

[Jess Brownell] I'm sorry. I know. If he had asked the right question, the show would be over. [laughs]

[Alison Hammond] Let's talk about the pinnacle. Loved it.

[Jess Brownell] Oh, yes. 

[Alison Hammond] Why did you choose Francesca to explore this storyline?

[Jess Brownell] Well, first of all, you know, I think it's really fun on the show that everyone gets to have perfect orgasms. Usually they orgasm within a few minutes, and often at the same time, which is magical. But we're a show about, uh, love in its many forms, and I also want to present intimacy in its many forms. And, um, my understanding is that the majority of women struggle to orgasm. Um, and I think normalizing that and representing that on screen was really important to me. Um, it's important to me to also emphasize that just because Francesca can't immediately have an orgasm doesn't mean that her love with John isn't real. It just means that she's the kind of character who's not quite in touch with herself, maybe metaphorically and literally. There's many types of intimacy throughout this season. I mean, you've got married, uh, casual, alone time.

[chuckles]

[Alison Hammond] Um… How do you hope people feel when they see all these different types of intimacy? 

[Jess Brownell] Uh, that's a good question. I think I… What I want people to take away from this season in general is, uh, lessons about courage. Um, you know, whether that's in the bedroom or outside of the bedroom. So I hope that people are brave enough to have some… Even if it's just alone intimate time, be brave.

[Alison Hammond] Go through. Go all the way.

[laughing] 

[Alison Hammond] Go all the way. We've got to talk about "I am the tea" moment.

[Jess] Okay.

[Alison Hammond] It's just brilliant. How did that even come about in the writing studio? 

[Jess Brownell] Do you know what? Every season, Shonda… Shonda doesn't write, you know, the show. She usually just gives notes on it. But once in a while, she'll go, "I want to take a crack at that scene." That is one of the scenes, one of the few scenes that Shonda wrote for the show. And it is iconic because it's Shonda frickin' Rhimes.

[Alison Hammond] She knew. That's why.

[Jess Brownell] She knows what's up.

[Alison Hammond]  She knew what to do. So that is…

[Alison Hammond]  I think you need to make tshirts.

[laughs]

[Alison Hammond]  “I am the tea.” You need to do it.

[Jess Brownell] Yeah, it's pretty good.

[classical outro plays]